Comments on: What are we doing wrong? http://blog.cascade.org/2010/08/what-are-we-doing-wrong/ Creating a better community through bicycling, throughout Seattle, King County and Washington state. Fri, 24 May 2013 21:32:04 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.2 By: It’s halftime in Washington « Cascade Bicycle Club Blog http://blog.cascade.org/2010/08/what-are-we-doing-wrong/comment-page-1/#comment-42779 It’s halftime in Washington « Cascade Bicycle Club Blog Thu, 16 Feb 2012 16:36:04 +0000 http://blog.cascade.org/?p=2253#comment-42779 [...] lot of defeats in my life. And, times when we didn’t understand each other. It seems like we’ve lost our heart at times. When the fog of division, discord, and blame made it hard to see what lies [...] [...] lot of defeats in my life. And, times when we didn’t understand each other. It seems like we’ve lost our heart at times. When the fog of division, discord, and blame made it hard to see what lies [...]

]]> By: Changes to NE 125th create a better neighborhood street for all | Seattle Bike Blog http://blog.cascade.org/2010/08/what-are-we-doing-wrong/comment-page-1/#comment-25426 Changes to NE 125th create a better neighborhood street for all | Seattle Bike Blog Tue, 23 Aug 2011 13:52:59 +0000 http://blog.cascade.org/?p=2253#comment-25426 [...] Nickerson. In the face of the NE 125th St debate, David Hiller (still with Cascade) asked, “What are we doing wrong?” Seattle Likes Bikes (which formed in part during the Stone Way debate) even made the claim [...] [...] Nickerson. In the face of the NE 125th St debate, David Hiller (still with Cascade) asked, “What are we doing wrong?” Seattle Likes Bikes (which formed in part during the Stone Way debate) even made the claim [...]

]]> By: Eric Shalit http://blog.cascade.org/2010/08/what-are-we-doing-wrong/comment-page-1/#comment-628 Eric Shalit Tue, 24 Aug 2010 00:57:10 +0000 http://blog.cascade.org/?p=2253#comment-628 To address Michael Snyder's post about finding out why people oppose the project, I believe there's another Wild Card. Some people are against change of any kind at all. They will vocally resist it. Sometimes even physically resist it. Having been involved in a seemingly benign traffic safety project in my own neighborhood, I've seen atrocious behavior up close. You may even have people making claims that oppose the laws of physics (e.g.: traffic calming devices make cars go faster; safety plan is more hazardous than status quo). Opponents will also take tips from Burke Gilman Missing Link foes. Where's the Mayor in terms of taking the lead on this? To address Michael Snyder’s post about finding out why people oppose the project, I believe there’s another Wild Card. Some people are against change of any kind at all. They will vocally resist it. Sometimes even physically resist it. Having been involved in a seemingly benign traffic safety project in my own neighborhood, I’ve seen atrocious behavior up close. You may even have people making claims that oppose the laws of physics (e.g.: traffic calming devices make cars go faster; safety plan is more hazardous than status quo).

Opponents will also take tips from Burke Gilman Missing Link foes.

Where’s the Mayor in terms of taking the lead on this?

]]> By: Times columnist takes some of her claims back | Seattle Bike Blog http://blog.cascade.org/2010/08/what-are-we-doing-wrong/comment-page-1/#comment-613 Times columnist takes some of her claims back | Seattle Bike Blog Mon, 23 Aug 2010 16:03:42 +0000 http://blog.cascade.org/?p=2253#comment-613 [...] Debates that are locally divisive and can cause hysteria (which can potentially lead to actual aggression on the streets) are exactly the places where the Times has the power (and responsibility) to explain the facts and how these road configurations compare to each other. That is important work, and perhaps we activists and citizen journalists could improve on our efforts, as Cascade is currently examining. [...] [...] Debates that are locally divisive and can cause hysteria (which can potentially lead to actual aggression on the streets) are exactly the places where the Times has the power (and responsibility) to explain the facts and how these road configurations compare to each other. That is important work, and perhaps we activists and citizen journalists could improve on our efforts, as Cascade is currently examining. [...]

]]> By: Jon Morgan http://blog.cascade.org/2010/08/what-are-we-doing-wrong/comment-page-1/#comment-566 Jon Morgan Sat, 21 Aug 2010 20:52:26 +0000 http://blog.cascade.org/?p=2253#comment-566 These projects were developed under Greg Nickles, not McGinn. What did Nickels do when the going got tough on the Nickerson St. road diet? He killed it until after the election. He never even tried to fight. Same on projects like dedicated lanes for Rapid Ride on 15th Ave. NW in Ballard; he just gave in to irrational demands to protect parking. McGinn is doing better than Nickels did, if he's focused more on big projects like the tunnel and light rail and less on smaller ones like road diets and other complete street projects. These projects were developed under Greg Nickles, not McGinn. What did Nickels do when the going got tough on the Nickerson St. road diet? He killed it until after the election. He never even tried to fight. Same on projects like dedicated lanes for Rapid Ride on 15th Ave. NW in Ballard; he just gave in to irrational demands to protect parking. McGinn is doing better than Nickels did, if he’s focused more on big projects like the tunnel and light rail and less on smaller ones like road diets and other complete street projects.

]]> By: Rich Jensen http://blog.cascade.org/2010/08/what-are-we-doing-wrong/comment-page-1/#comment-565 Rich Jensen Sat, 21 Aug 2010 17:05:00 +0000 http://blog.cascade.org/?p=2253#comment-565 I think there is a cognitive problem that starts at the gas pedal. There is a visceral 'car consciousness' that just seeks to glide at cruising speed. Any kind of obstruction, a light, a narrow road, "congestion", becomes problematic, a deeply irritating impediment to the luxurious feeling of flowing toward one's desire. That's where the vehemence comes from. "These bicycle people are trying to keep me from my joy!" And of course, we are now into three or four generations of publicly sponsoring and normalizing this consciousness. So, how to intervene? Good question. I think cars as health issue is the way to go. To use a cigarette analogy, high-impact mangling is the direct cancer here. Use shame: billboards of mangled bikers, etc. I think there is a cognitive problem that starts at the gas pedal. There is a visceral ‘car consciousness’ that just seeks to glide at cruising speed. Any kind of obstruction, a light, a narrow road, “congestion”, becomes problematic, a deeply irritating impediment to the luxurious feeling of flowing toward one’s desire. That’s where the vehemence comes from. “These bicycle people are trying to keep me from my joy!” And of course, we are now into three or four generations of publicly sponsoring and normalizing this consciousness.

So, how to intervene? Good question. I think cars as health issue is the way to go. To use a cigarette analogy, high-impact mangling is the direct cancer here.

Use shame: billboards of mangled bikers, etc.

]]> By: Michael Snyder http://blog.cascade.org/2010/08/what-are-we-doing-wrong/comment-page-1/#comment-532 Michael Snyder Fri, 20 Aug 2010 23:22:51 +0000 http://blog.cascade.org/?p=2253#comment-532 It would be good to know in a followup survey what reasons people have for opposing these changes. Do they think it makes it harder to drive? Do they think it costs too much? Do they think that bicycling isn't a legitimate mode of transportation? It would be good to know in a followup survey what reasons people have for opposing these changes.

Do they think it makes it harder to drive?
Do they think it costs too much?
Do they think that bicycling isn’t a legitimate mode of transportation?

]]> By: Michael Snyder http://blog.cascade.org/2010/08/what-are-we-doing-wrong/comment-page-1/#comment-530 Michael Snyder Fri, 20 Aug 2010 23:19:22 +0000 http://blog.cascade.org/?p=2253#comment-530 I would like to make it clear that I do applaud Cascade for holding to a fact based approach. The club has been excellent at getting facts into the hands of members, politicians, and bicycle activists and helping us find the politicians and officials who need to hear from us. Where I think we need to consider how we frame our arguments and how we change minds is in the community at large. We sometimes make assumptions that the community understands that there is a problem and we start our conversation by trying to convince them that our solution is right when they haven't even realized that there is a problem. We do this a lot when replying to columnists and on talkback forums, but we do it in person too. I think we need to dwell on the problem more and make it that tangible sick feeling in the stomach of our opponents as they realize that if we don't fix the problem then eventually an innocent neighbor will die. We need to introduce pedestrians who have been hit to not just city council members but also to Seattle Times columnists and business owners, making them feel the problem personally. Once they feel the problem, we can then get them on board with the solution. As long as they don't feel the problem, it will be an us vs. them argument. I would like to make it clear that I do applaud Cascade for holding to a fact based approach. The club has been excellent at getting facts into the hands of members, politicians, and bicycle activists and helping us find the politicians and officials who need to hear from us.

Where I think we need to consider how we frame our arguments and how we change minds is in the community at large. We sometimes make assumptions that the community understands that there is a problem and we start our conversation by trying to convince them that our solution is right when they haven’t even realized that there is a problem. We do this a lot when replying to columnists and on talkback forums, but we do it in person too.

I think we need to dwell on the problem more and make it that tangible sick feeling in the stomach of our opponents as they realize that if we don’t fix the problem then eventually an innocent neighbor will die. We need to introduce pedestrians who have been hit to not just city council members but also to Seattle Times columnists and business owners, making them feel the problem personally.

Once they feel the problem, we can then get them on board with the solution.
As long as they don’t feel the problem, it will be an us vs. them argument.

]]> By: Marge Evans http://blog.cascade.org/2010/08/what-are-we-doing-wrong/comment-page-1/#comment-527 Marge Evans Fri, 20 Aug 2010 21:35:34 +0000 http://blog.cascade.org/?p=2253#comment-527 The problem I have with phone polls, is that you're only talking to people with landlines, which, is a much older demographic. (myself included). How many people under 35 have a landline? hardly any I would expect. The problem I have with phone polls, is that you’re only talking to people with landlines, which, is a much older demographic. (myself included). How many people under 35 have a landline? hardly any I would expect.

]]> By: The Public Hazards of Privatizing Infrastructure http://blog.cascade.org/2010/08/what-are-we-doing-wrong/comment-page-1/#comment-519 The Public Hazards of Privatizing Infrastructure Fri, 20 Aug 2010 16:23:37 +0000 http://blog.cascade.org/?p=2253#comment-519 [...] on the Network: Reinventing Transport offers a video on pay-as-you-go car insurance; Cascade Bicycle Club advocates for framing the debate around bicycle-friendly communities as a "win-win," [...] [...] on the Network: Reinventing Transport offers a video on pay-as-you-go car insurance; Cascade Bicycle Club advocates for framing the debate around bicycle-friendly communities as a "win-win," [...]

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